Good post Ohiogal. I was talking to a young lady who is a mortgage broker in AZ this weekend. She was explaining alot of things I didn't realize like how many of the problems came from the exact things you said. Also I didnt realize speculators in this market were a big problem creating false values and then having the values drop off. Also a big problem in AZ were small property investors, where people would purchase homes to "flip" or to use as rental properties but they weren't prepared when it came time to pay the bills or if problems in the properties arose. Then when the places were vacant or wouldnt sell, time they were in over their heads and would lose the properties to the banks. The problem came when the loans were more than the properties were worth. She like you said that it was mostly the consumers irresponsibility. They would also give the lenders alot of false information. However, now the lenders out there, do a thorough background check, they require money down and only lend 97% of the value of the property. When you spoke of the closing costs of $6000. In AZ she averaged about $3500 in sales commissions per deal.
Sad thing, this along with the declining dollar is a big part of the rise in gas prices. The bank speculators are keeping energy prices up and trying to regain some of the cash they lost.

Oh Rageman, I see your still around? Summer is 1/2 way over and no Studdie Yet? It's ok, I've been very busy anyway!! "smiles!!!"

Wow, interesting blogging going on here. My comments are going to address the real estate market and foreclosures as mentioned in some of these posts.

I don't think it can be blamed on either party in office. Let's put the blame where it belongs, on the individual homeowners!!!

Not to long ago I took the time to look up the first l0 listings of foreclosures on the property records. In my very unscientific study I found the following to be true.

About 6 of the homes had been owned for over l0 years by the now in default homeowner. Over the previous l0 years this group of 6 had refinanced their homes an average of 3 times. Each time incurring about 6 thousand in closing costs and upping their mortgage balance by 20 thousand. (My thoughts, a new boat, a vacation, pay off credit card debt). By the time they approached the 3rd refinance they were taking adjustable mortgages and negative amortization loans. Is it our (the taxpayers fault) or the gov'ts fault that they are not fiscally responsible with what should have become their biggest asset and they keep draining their equity out in the hopes that their home would continue to appreciate at ridiculous amounts?
Grant it a few good hard working people did get caught up in purchasing at the top of the market. As long as they took a straight, black and white loan with none of the fancy traps of if it sounds to good to be true it probably is, then in time they will be ok. Living beyond your means and spending more than you make should not become everyone else's problem. The bubble hasn't even burst yet. All these people going into foreclosure are going to turn around in a year or so and file for bankruptcy further hurting the economy. In the end it's the rest of us who will pay for this. They have spenders remorse and I don't think that this should be blamed on either political party. The laws need to be changed to make these people responsible for their own irresponsibility. Why are they allowed to just, go in to foreclosure, turn around file bankruptcy and in a couple of years (just two years folks) and they can purchase another home again?
Ok, off my soapbox! I'm going to leave all the other controversy going on in this post alone!

Thanks for taking your Ritalin Why. It's good to see you stay on one subject.

Of course my first paragraph was drivel... to you.
Just like the names you call me are drivel. My dad called me worse names that that, do you think you intimidate me?

Funny thing that once you produce a clear thought we almost agree on whole subject. It's like you've been taking my opinions from previous articles to help form your own.

I just can't figure out why you insist on using "junk references" to make your point. Why did you use the Washington Post article? Everyone of the Oil Leaders said they couldn't recall that particular meeting. Did it actually happen? This story reminds me of the Daily Show quote you gave about John McCain calling his wife a c**t. Stewarts quote after that was "did he really say that? It doesn't matter, it's out there now." This is an`example of how much the media is trying to control elections in general. They just throw it out there and doofus' take what is said as gospel. I still hear stories that Obama was sworn in on the Koran.(Lie)

Also where did I say that I thought one party has the answer. I feel that the Reps have a better plan but we the people are the ones that must get them past the politics and on board with a real energy plan to strengthen America.

My reference to the Pipeline was to show how fast our country and our corporations can accomplish something. They built an 800 mile pipeline through the Canadian wilderness in 3 years. With the newer safer, faster technology that Exxon is using they can drill 35% faster. THe reason the Dems talk about 10 years is this is how long they want it to take and they want to remove the hope from the American citizens, no hope produces votes. Also, it doesnt fit in their profit plan. We all know gas prices will not get better, I am concerned about my younger relative and the America they will inherit.

We must be energy independent to remain a super power. We can be completely independent in 10 years using oil and the alternative energy sources. If the Government works with our corporations. I agree they are all getting paid. Here is the latest payee in my opinion and one of the reasons oil and gas are costing so much. Al Gore and his company Genereation Investments. His investors have the ability to control 31T dollars on the market. In the exact way the Marxists got change in the Soviet Union. Gore created a crisis with global warming. Meanwhile he was starting an investment company with a former Goldman Sachs Executive that invests in alternative fuels. When GW started to back fire, the Major Left Dems allowed gas and oil prices to sky rocket in one year, almost 38%,since they got in power and not one bit of legislation introduced to curb this. Creating another crisis. Go ahead and blame all of this on the Oil Companies but using your words... "when you let the fox watch the henhouse". You are right they ARE ALL bought and not just by the oil companies. As I always said discover the problem and follow the money. It is always the motive.

You are absolutely on target with the speculators and the Hedge Fund managers. They are both killing this country. In my opinion they were a big part of triggering the Mortgage Crisis. If George Soros can break the bank of England through the Forex they could have easily triggered the mortgage and credit crisis all they had to do was watch the devaluation of the dollar and the imbalance and watch for the mark where they could short sell the market. They won't mention THIS either because George Soros is the biggest donator to Far Left Dem candidates and the owner of moveon.org(Soros also influenced the decision to change the tax rates for hedgefunds. The first legislation the dems introduce. Raising his profits from 600M to 2.9B)

If you want to feel better about America. Try to find the John Kerry /Lindsay Graham debate that was on Headline News today. Pretty uplifting unless you are a Kerry fan.

We will be like this until after the election. The dems are going to position themselves and hope that financial pain and the war will help them gain votes.
The reps will try to introduce legislation to apparently try to help the situation by also knowing that it won't get passed. They are going to try to gain votes by demonstrating that "at least they are trying". I think both are full of**** but we'll find out in November.

militaryday,

"FIRST I WAS NOT MAKING A THREAT TO YOU, I WAS STATING THAT IF YOU LIVED IN A COUNRTY THAT DID NOT BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH, MAYBE THINGS WOULD BE DIFFERENT."

Oh is that what is was?

Cause it sounded like a thinly veiled threat.

Should I talk about what would happen to people who make threats like that in other parts of the world?

Well, I am not like that. I'll save that behavior for the petty little men in this world, like George Bush and yourself.

And listen buddy, god bless your son. I hope he makes it home safe and sound. But I have never been disrespectful to the troops. I just don't put them on some f*ck*ng pedestal like everyone else.

Yes, I don't think a 20 year old kid has a complete handle on all the nuances about geo-political events. Did you?

Do you think a 20 year old kid would be a good brain surgeon? No! The majority of the troops in Iraq cannot run for president of the United States yet (35 y.o). And you want to put their opinion on complex events on a pedestal?

Do you ask the kid at Burger King his opinion of the war in Iraq when you get your burger? No of course you don't!

So grow up and get real. And take that yellow ribbon, flag waving, rah-rah attitude and soak your head with it. Your talking about your flesh and blood so I doubt you can be realistic.

Why do you bring up Obama? I am not an Obama supporter, nor am I McCain supporter. I have mentioned that over and over again.

Finally, I am a realist sir and in this day in age that may smack of pessimism.

averagejoe,

Your first paragraph is mindless drivel. If you could sink your teeth into any of the points I made, I would love to see it happen. Teach me some of that ellusive truth!

I would dispense with any pipe-dream of energy independence.

Again, that money can be used today toward our energery dependence from fossil to renewable or alternative sources. I do not disagree in regards to exploring for more resources, but do not think that will make things any better.

The simple logic of Franklin can be applied here, 'A barrel saved is a barrel drilled.'

You know what would help the current oil markets? Not being in Iraq!

You know what would help the dollar be worth more so we could spend less in our stores and at the pump?

Not borrowing 12 billion a month from China to fight a war in Iraq.

Furthermore, the pipe line is a transport system. Just wanted to point that out. No one is talking about building a pipe line. The Alaskan pipe line produced it's 15th billion barrel of oil in 2005.

The U.S. uses 20,730,000 barrels per day. That equates to 7,566,450,000. So in regards to the pipe dream of 'energy independence', the Alaskan pipe line would have made us 'independent' for less than 3 years.

It's more than energy. It is all the derivatives of fossil fuels from ferilizers, to hydrocarbons for other products. This goes beyond energy.

And I agree with you about increasing our use of solar, wind and nuclear energy.

I disagree about the government though. Yes they have done nothing and vote them all out and guess what? The oil and energy companies will help get their cronies elected again and again and again so they can keep milking the American public. The American Petroleum Institute is one of the biggest lobbies in America.

You said it yourself, "They will do anything that will make a profit."

Remember when Cheny met in secert with all thos oil and energy executives?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501842.html

And now we are in a war where Cheney's old company is makine windfall profits. We are seeing record high oil prices and the public is now ready to allow drilling offshore and to open up ANWAR.

And the oil companies are salivating at the chance to get to that oil, on federal lands that 'We the people' own, and they will happily sell it back to us for a huge profit.

Hmmm...smells fishy to me. My mom did not raise an idiot. When you let the fox watch the hen house this is going to happen.

Quick! Call me a 'Hollywood liberal, Sean Penn, surrender monkey.' Quick, before you re-read this and you start to realize you've been had!

You know what else might help? If Washington regulated speculation trading. In Congressional testimoney, a hedge fund manager stated oil prices could drop in half within 30 days. And if these high risk investors who are driving up oil pices want to move on to other markets and destroy their economies, so be it. I do not have a lot sympathy for the Wall St. hedge fund manager who may lose his job.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/23/news/economy/energy_speculation/index.htm?postversion=2008062317

So with that all said, why throw more money at the problem?

This is the larger point that I and others have been trying to get through: vote for who ever you want IT DOES NOT MATTER!

THEY ARE ALL BOUGHT AND SOLD, EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!

There may be 1 or 2 exceptions, but those people are marganalized or ignored by the MSM.

And McCain and Obama are about as inside the beltway, big lobbiest money as you can get.

So go ahead, blame the dems, blame no one, it does not matter. But blame yourself if you think any one party or person has the answer.






Your other trite excuses are just that, excuses.

whydoicare,

FIRST I WAS NOT MAKING A THREAT TO YOU, I WAS STATING THAT IF YOU LIVED IN A COUNRTY THAT DID NOT BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH, MAYBE THINGS WOULD BE DIFFERENT.

I as a parent was showing my anger and frustration of how you spoke of the troops, I took this to heart. I am proud of my family that is currently serving and it irritates me when people like you show so much disrespect of the troops.

I also believe in the Second Amendment to bear arms.

I also read the Christian Science Monitor magazine at times, and have found it to be informative.

You favor reform in Iraq. You were open to the "new' idea for progress by waging war in the Middle East.

The comment above that you wrote about me is untrue. I do not want us to rage war, but we are there and need to finish the mission.

Today Obama changed his mind on how we will leave Iraq and time lines, I wonder why he did this?

What are the troops of 2008 saying, since 2006 polls were two years ago. The one's I talk with want to finish there mission and believe that we are helping the people of Iraq.

When we comment on here it comes down to a choice, of the kind of person you are :

Are you PESSIMIST,REALIST,OR A OPTIMIST ?

Rageman,

Sorry but I only have distant relations in the area. I have not tried to hide who I am, if I did I would not have posted pictures on the Recordpub.com

I am related by family to Puba though, she has been really sick and is spending time with her daughter in Oklahoma. I will let her know that you were asking about her.

I really don't have time, to break down every point you make. It's impossible to do because you are all over the board with your opinions and selective with you knowledge. Read your second paragraph hell read all of your posts and look in the mirror, add to that I am disrepectful and vile and you are right, you do reflect how you think of yourself. You are apparently pretty smart. It's too bad you dont use your knowledge to add to the conversation instead of arguing talking points and trying to prove to people that they wrong. Are you that insecure. Or do you really think no one knows as much as you.

Anyway, one day you'll get it.

Did I ever say that I thought that drilling would lower gas prices? The price will never go down. Wages and inflation will rise up just like they have in the past.
My opinion is that by drilling we can be energy independent quicker, but apparently you choose to believe what the press and the Democrats want you to believe. (We had the Alaska pipeline on line in less than 4 years. This isn't the 70's. We have the technology to drill much faster and to be safer with the environment. There is a new drill capable of drilling 2 miles per month through solid rock.) We need oil to be a component of a comprehensive energy independence plan. Oil, nuke, wind, solar, bios and whatever else combined equal energy independence. Something our govt, both Dem and Rep have talked about since Jimmy Carter but failed to provide us and continue to prolong. We "the people"are energy hostages. We need to vote out whoever won't begin working on this plan or we will be Europe, but isnt that really the plan. We arent ready to go all green energy. It will be a while until this begins. In some areas solar has been put on hold because they have done an economic study on it's effects.
Notice I didn't blame this on anyone in particular. It is our government that is causing this and who do they blame? Us? We are the ones addicted to oil. They don't blame themselves for their inability to govern and project into the future. If they would have been working with the big corporations and governing and steering us toward energy independence like they should have been instead of forming commissions to investigate baseball steoid use we wouldnt be in this predicament. They have all fallen asleep at the wheel and have fallen prey to the people that have backed them financially.

Will we get there by taxing the oil companies profits and letting the govt dole out the money for research etc to achieve the goal of energy independence? Are you kidding? They haven't done it in 40 years. So why should it happen now.

We need to work with the oil companies to develope these new energies by offering incentives. They are business. They will do anything that will make a profit. They are the owners of the knowledge to make it happen. We can't afford to have this tied up in bureaucratic paperwork and committees. Let American entrepreneurs handle it. They created the richest, greatest, most powwerful country ever. They need motivated not taxed and raped like the town *****. In the past there was no motivation to create alternate energies. So why should they.

MITARYDUNCE wrote the following:

"Your answer to averagejoe:

1) Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

2) Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded

I would not call myself a liberal, but since you see life in a abstract view I will overlook your ignorance. "

Let us see, the "established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes' in the United States up to the point of the current Iraq war was not to START wars. Therefore, since you are not limited by that tradition, you seem very liberal.

You favor reform in Iraq. You were open to the "new' idea for progress by waging war in the Middle East.


MILITARYMORON said, "YOU AND YOUR MOONBAT FRIENDS NEED A VACATION. MAYBE A PADDED ROOM WHERE YOU ALL CAN BE DELUSIONAL AND DREARY ABOUT THE FUTURE OF ARE NATION AS YOU WANT. "

Delusional or realistic? It takes more courage to call things like you see them as opposed to burying your head in the sand.

MILITARYPSYCHO threatened "Lucky for you we do not lock up or behead citizens for desecrating the troops. Praise God for free speech, even with your licentious behavior to wards others."

ARE YOU THREATEING TO BEHEAD ME? Are you crazy? Do feel these little tirades back and forth on the internet warrant a THREAT OF MURDER? I think you may have broken the law with that threat and I will seek recourse if needed or desired should further threaten me. Be forewarned, I am a FIRM believer in the 2nd amendment and have the equipment and inclination to defend my life and property.

You sound like a jihadist! You sound like an extremist. You are a frightening example of what is bad in this country.

In addition, just to let you know, an interesting article came out in the Christian Science Monitor (I know what a LIBERAL rag). You may enjoy it very much. Here are some excerpts about the surge in Iraq:

"Still, while the 1/64 recognizes much progress during its tour, the majority of the more than dozen soldiers and officers interviewed question if their effort will have been worth it in the end. Many say their mission helped bring about only a lull in the sectarian killings and feel that neither the Iraqi government nor its forces are ready, capable, or even motivated to build on the successes of the surge.

"We have no control over what happens once we leave. No one is prepared to stay here 20 years of their lives to make sure this place stays good," says Spc. Mark Webster, a native of San Luis Obispo, Calif., stationed at the neighborhood garrison of Adel. These combat outposts (COPS) have been scattered throughout Baghdad since the start of the surge. "We have accomplished things; we kept it at a general lull," adds Specialist Webster."

"They tell us we are doing something for our country, but I do not see it," says one soldier, who did not want to have his name published. "It seems more like the real fight is in Afghanistan instead they get us into this [area of operation], which is more like Mr. Rogers' neighborhood."

"Adel, a once-prosperous middle-class area, is now almost all Sunni and poor. Shiites fled the sectarian violence of 2006 and their homes have been occupied by Sunnis displaced from neighboring Hurriya. That shift is just one example of the new sectarian segregation throughout Baghdad."

"Fear consumes people. Hearts are still filled with fear," says Mrs. Marouf, gesturing emotionally."

"Her sister, Jinan Marouf, adds: "All this calm is temporary, trust me. If we get someone like Saddam Hussein back, Iraq will be itself again. We need someone with his control."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080703/wl_csm/ohome

Wow! Sounds like things are wonderful there! The troops in this article sound like they really believe in that "mission'.

This is from a poll in 2006. Yes 2006. "An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows."

Should we listen to that 72%? Or are they "Hollywood Liberals'? Should they be beheaded? That seems to be the answer for extremist like yourself and other tyrants who think the use of ,or the threat of force, is justifiable when people do not agree with you.

Averagejoe,

I take your post to mean you cannot really form an expanded view to have a debate. Even though you state a desire for a debate, you were clearly here to find anyone who does not agree with this current administration or the war in Iraq and "label' them as "Hollywood Liberals'.

Therefore, you are essentially guilty of hypocrisy. You label someone's reason for not being the same as your own in the pigeonholed way. Moreover, when people present cross-referenced facts that refute your limited worldview, you attack the source and do not address the message or fact of the source.

To me, that is the reason you do not pick apart my theses. The propaganda machine of the mainstream media clearly attempts to shape and influence public opinion. You fell for the "Everything is going great in Iraq and America is Numero Uno. Any one who disagrees is a Hollywood Liberal, Mike Moore loving, descendant of Sean Penn, surrender monkey.'

Furthermore, your public admiration for Israel seals the deal. They are fierce all right. Below is a link to the BBC, which is as mainstream media as you get. I quoted the first couple of paragraphs incase you were afraid to challenge what you perceive as the truth.

"Israeli security forces killed 660 Palestinians in 2006 - three times more than in 2005, according to an Israeli human rights group.

B'Tselem, which monitors human rights in the occupied territories, said the figure included 141 children.

At least 322 had taken no part in hostile acts, the group said.

In the same period, the number of deadly Palestinian attacks on Israelis has fallen - 23 Israelis were killed in 2006 compared with 50 last year."

You are right though, those Israelis ARE fierce. How fierce do you have to be to kill 141 children?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6215769.stm

You alluded that I would never change my beliefs; again, you are projecting what you know about yourself onto me or anyone else who challenges your fragile worldview. You see I was once like you. I thought America was the most noble and greatest country in the world and that our lives are free from any moral entanglements that would prevent my enjoyment of the "American Way'.

Yet in the aftermath of 9/11, millions of people across the world began to try to understand how this tragedy could have happened and why we were rushing into war; a dimmer picture of the world immerged. A picture of others and ours' governments being bought and sold by multi-national conglomerates; corporate interests becoming the public interest; the interests of other countries being put before the interests of America; economic expansion at the expense of long-term sustainability; the rights of the Federal government expanded at the expense of individual liberties. What millions of us saw and see today was the mad rush by the citizens to give up what makes America truly great for a false sense of temporary security and ultimately the end of an Empire.

It is morally easier to be like you. To refuse to see how things really are. To NOT speak up for what is right and publicly denounce what is wrong. To wallow in the comforts of our consumer culture and think that our materialism equates to living a meaningful life. I do not blame anybody for not walking away from that delusion. It was such an easier world to live in believing that.

As Ben Franklin says, "It's common for Men to give pretended Reasons instead of one real one.'

Just like your "pretend' reasons about oil drilling. It will not lower costs. I showed you the government's own studies that prove that. It will cost billions and billions of dollars to MAYBE find oil and not enough oil to lower prices. Don't you think those BILLIONS AND BILLIONS could be used on research for alternative energies or improvements in rapid transit, or anything else that WILL HELP TODAY?

You buy whatever rhetoric comes out of the T.V. You are 100% correct, let us give the oil companies MORE money. They will wean us from our dependency on oil, for sure!

You are a good little sheep. You "baa' when told, on cue like a circus animal. Just keep towing the line and saying the same things the talking heads on the TV tell you: "HOLLYWOOD LIBERALS, MICHAEL MOORE, SEAN PENN, FRANCE, WAR, TERROR, TERROR, TERROR, TERROR.

Ultimately, you are afraid. That fear was seen in your other posts. You are afraid like most of us; afraid of what is to come, how our society will be rapidly changing due to the falling dollar and increased oil costs. You are probably afraid for your economic future, as we all should be.

"Give me control over a man's economic actions, and hence over his means of survival, and except for a few occasional heroes, I'll promise to deliver to you men who think and write and behave as I want them to." Benjamine A. Rooge